Behind the Meter: An MPSC Podcast
We take you inside the Michigan Public Service Commission (MPSC) to explore the vital work we do in regulating utilities and services across the state of Michigan. We’ll introduce you to our commissioners, employees and special guests throughout the way as we discuss how we serve Michigan residents by ensuring safe, reliable, and affordable access to essential utilities like electricity, natural gas and telecommunications. Tune in to learn more about the people, processes, and impact of the MPSC as we work to improve the lives of Michigan’s residents every day.
Behind the Meter: An MPSC Podcast
Regulatory Transparency by Design
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The Michigan Public Service Commission is making utility data easier to access, understand and use.
In this episode of Behind the Meter, we explore Regulatory Transparency by Design and the MPSC’s first-in-the-nation online transparency tool, which gives the public greater access to customer and electric reliability data that was once spread across regulatory filings and technical reports.
Learn how customers can use the data to better understand utility performance, how MPSC staff use it to identify trends and strengthen oversight, and why greater access to information can lead to better questions, better decisions, and better outcomes for Michigan customers.
Transparency isn’t simply about making data public—it’s about making information accessible, understandable, and useful.
Michigan Transparency: Empowering People to Understand Information Driving Regulatory Decisions | Fortnightly: https://www.fortnightly.com/fortnight...
Electric Reliability: https://experience.arcgis.com/experie...
Hello, and welcome to another episode of Behind the Meter and MPSC podcast, where we explore the people, policies, and technology shaping Michigan's energy and telecommunications future. I'm your host, Mike Byrne. Today we are talking about something that affects every utility customer, but doesn't always get the attention it deserves, transparency. And joining me in this conversation today, our frequent guest, Commissioner Catherine Peritek. Hello.
SPEAKER_02Hello, thank you for having me back.
SPEAKER_03Excited to have you here today. We also have a couple folks from MPSC staff who are gonna join us in this conversation. Michelle Powell, who is in the Energy Operations Division. Hi, Michelle.
SPEAKER_01Hello, thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_03And Jake Thaling, who is in our customer assistance division. Hi, Jake. Hey, thanks for having me today. So uh the Michigan Public Service Commission recently launched a first in-the-nation online tool that gives customers unprecedented access to electric reliability information in their own communities. And this is building on years of data collection and publication that the commission has been undertaking. Um but this episode isn't really about a website, it's about why transparency matters, why the commission chose to make this information public, and how better access to data can lead to better outcomes for customers. So let's jump right in. Commissioner Perith, I want to start with you. Transparency has become a major focus for the commission. Uh, why was it important to make both customer data and electric reliability data more accessible to the public?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so transparency really is, I think, a foundation of good government. Um, and I'm an engineer, I like to make all of my decisions based on data. I think that that's really important to have that foundation, that that uh those statistics, that ability to um analyze what is going on to be able to then inform the decisions that we make. Just like a you know, a doctor wouldn't diagnose you or treat a patient without looking at their vital signs first. It's it's a similar thing for what we do here. We right we as regulators shouldn't be making decisions without the best available data in front of us. So we can we can see the full picture and really understand what's happening. It's but it's also not just about publishing that data and making decisions on it. Another big piece of this is really building trust with the public, of allowing everybody or anybody who's interested to actually see what our system looks like, see what the utilities are doing, see what reliability looks like, see what our customer protections look like, and actually be able to make their own conclusions or maybe notice something that we hadn't noticed before. Um, I I really believe that making build the transparency is one of the foundations of building trust with the public. Um so uh as you mentioned, we've got a couple of our uh staff members here as guests today who have been really instrumental in building this platform of transparency at the commission, both on two different sides of it. So, Michelle on the reliability side and being and building the visualization of our reliability metrics, which has been a project that we've we've both been really focused on over the past few years. Um, and Jake on the customer protection side and analyzing a lot of the utility shutoff data, arrearage data, and data that really allows us to put regulations in place to protect customers. So maybe, Jake, do you want to describe what specific data uh you focus in on and analyze as part of your job?
SPEAKER_00Sure. So the data that I look at is it's we reference it as the quarterly report. And that data has uh utility service disconnection data, reconnection data, has uh arrearage numbers, number of customers interrears, the actual amount interrears that they are. And we also have uh smaller data points such as like payment plan information and uh medical emergencies, critical care emergency, stuff like that. So that's all housed in our quarterly report. Uh the quarterly report is in our billing rules. So that is why we started collecting the data a long time ago because it's in the billing rules. And we've always we've always had this data, but it wasn't very easy for the public to look at it, to view it, to ask questions about it. This data was housed in our e-docket system, and customers would have to actually get into the e-dockets, pull an individual report from a utility to review that data. And it's just really time consuming, very labor intensive. I know this for a fact because during COVID, I was reviewing that data and have to do it myself, right? I'd have to get in, I'd have to pull DTE's data, then I'd have to pull consumers. Then if I wanted to put them all together, it was another side project that would take an entire day, right? So we started discussing this and then we decided to make it a little bit more public is let's build a web page. And we got it together with IT and we built a web page to put all this data on. So now it's more of a one to one-stop shop for everybody, which makes it better for the public, better for staff, better for the utilities, because now they know that we are really looking at this data and we're looking, we're gonna make sure that it's accurate and quarterly. They have to have it there every quarter on the first day that it's available, or they're going to hear from us. So yeah, so it's better for the public for sure, and it's also better for staff. And I'm really excited about it. And I hope that people take a look at the new webpage because it's it's pretty sharp.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I'm hoping that we get some some extra upticks on our uh on our webpages that's captured this podcast, and people realize that this is out there. Um, but yes, uh, you mentioned our IT department too. Our IT department is just fantastic, and just want to shout out especially Charlie, Charlie Tidwell, who spends a lot of his time working on this and and getting a lot of the uh the back end running so we can we can have uh have this all actually accessible and and up and running. Um and part of the part of the other piece there, Jake, that I think that you uh highlighted that I I definitely want to come back to later is the accountability piece. You mentioned that the utilities now know that this this data is being reported. It's being reported publicly, anybody can see it. A reporter can pull it up, a university student can pull it up, we can pull it, anybody, right? Like you can, it's now being shown publicly, and it adds that accountability piece, but not only to the utility, but also to us as regulators too, and and to and to uh um uh our jobs that that we do. So I'm excited to dig into more.
SPEAKER_03That's great. So so one thing that makes this effort particularly exciting is that Michigan didn't just adopt somebody else's model. I think that in some ways where we kind of created something entirely new. And that's probably specifically as it relates to to the interactive map. So I'd love to to hear a little bit about that and and just understand better what makes that unique and maybe why is it being called first in the nation.
SPEAKER_02Um yeah, well, we we decided uh to take on a pretty ambitious project. Um actually, Michelle is a big part of this. She came in with a lot of GIS expertise into the commission, something that we hadn't really had at our commission previously. And um I I think it was in a meeting at some point we were brain, we were doing some brainstorming about what we could do with with some of your GIS expertise. And we came up with this idea of really making the reliability metrics um into a like a more accessible visual format. These are metrics that we have been collecting for a little while now. Um, but to Jay's point from earlier, they're not exactly easy to find unless you know where to go look for them. So uh you decided to turn it into a really easy-to-use visual map.
SPEAKER_01Yes. No, the goal was to make it um very intuitive so that anybody in Michigan could go onto our website and learn more about these reliability metrics and better understand how their utility is performing. Uh, because it is a very complex uh topic. Um, because originally we have two different cases that are related that uh utilities submit reliability data to. There is case number U12270, where utilities submit annual system-wide reliability data reports, and there is case number U21122, where investor on utilities submit uh zip code and census track level reliability data. And there's a lot of there's a lot of metrics in those reports, and we focused on three specific ones SADI, which is system average interruption duration index, SAFI, which is system average interruption frequency index, and KD, which is customer average interruption duration index. And so SADI is like the average minutes of interruption per customer over a set amount of time. So say like a year, and SAFE is the number of interruptions per customer over a set amount of time, and KD is how long those interruptions are lasting. And so to make it kind of simple, uh, for a given year, Sadie would be the total amount of time you spent without power, safety would be how many times your power was interrupted, and KD would be how long those interruptions lasted.
SPEAKER_02That's really helpful. Thanks for breaking that down. Yes, yes. Sometimes we we just speak in these acronyms, but uh that was a really good explanation.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. Yeah. Um, I know when I first started digging into the reliability metrics, there can be a lot of buzzwording stuff that once you dig down into, it's easier to understand. But for our customaries and other residents, it's important to dig down into the weeds borrow. Um but yeah, so for our interactive application, I created um two uh sort of different sections to focus on. There is a statewide map page that displays that annual reliability data that we collect. And then there are also individual utility pages where we focus on the community level data that these Michigan utilities provide for us so that customers can see how their individual zip codes are performing. And this allows for comparison of utility performance and how they are improving, and it also uh helps with uh customers to compare across their neighboring zip codes and see where they sort of land in there.
SPEAKER_02That is really helpful and and land on those different metrics too, right? Like because sometimes sometimes people will lose power but only once a year, but it'll go out for a really long amount of time. Exactly. Now you can kind of check to see is that normal? Like how where do I stand in terms of the ranking, both for the duration, frequency, and how long it uh um it takes you to be uh um uh restored, your electricity service restored. Exactly. Um so uh and oh now and now you can break it down by zip code. And that's the that's really the piece that I that is uh first in the country. So this was this was something that we thought was important was to not only be able to display this on a utility-wide basis and and do that in visual format, but also on that more local zip code basis um to really see if everybody's being treated equally, right? Like are there places that uh have significantly better or significantly worse electric reliability than other parts of the service territory?
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Yeah, it kind of can help us figure out where areas are vulnerable and work with the utilities to help improve the reliability there.
SPEAKER_03It's also maybe for customers to be able to figure out what's going on. If you look in spreadsheet, look and just like, you know, it's numbers. Uh, but when you see it on the map and you see sort of like, you know, how it compares to other places, that that can really be uh a more powerful way of demonstrating and how things how things are working.
SPEAKER_00And I also think that it's it's just as important to know that we weren't told to do this by anyone. There's no laws that say we have to do this, there was no legislation that was passed that told us to do this. We did this because we believe that customers have the right to see this information. We want to be transparent, we want to get the information out there, we want to use the information and we want to get the opinions up from the public to help us do our work as well. And that's on the GIS side with the data that Michelle's dealing with, and on the customer assistance side with the the customer data that I'm receiving. I mean, we looking having people look at it from different perspectives are is key. They might see something that we didn't see, and we can look at it from a different angle. So I just wanted to say that it's it's a really great thing that I think staff has done and the commission has done, uh getting this all out there to everybody. And also, when you say first in the nation, I've actually had other states reach out to me just to have the just to walk them through our data site because they want to do something similar. So I've had Charlie Tidwell that you've already mentioned on a meeting, and we've walked him through how we built the site. And the only thing I tell them time after time is you need a good IT person, and you cannot have Charlie. Uh oh no, we're not we still need him. This is just this is just the start, and we're going to be using him more and more often. So yeah, it's just great that we're as transparent as we are.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's awesome. We were actually also just featured in an article in um the prestigious public public utilities Fortnightly uh publication as well. Um, I'm holding up if you're watching on YouTube, I'm holding up a copy of it. So there's a nice article in here that describes in a little bit more detail a lot of the work that that we've done on transparency has some good uh visuals of the maps and so on, some pictures about the about the website that goes into a little bit more detail.
SPEAKER_03So don't just check out the website, make sure you check out nightly as well. We'll plug in. Um okay, so let's maybe drill down a little bit and answer a question that listeners may be maybe asking. Why does this matter to me and how can this actually improve my life missionarily?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, this is this is really what it comes down to. We don't, it's not just data display for the sake of data display. We actually want to be able to use this and not just rely on anecdotes or assumptions about uh about what our electric reliability or what our customer protection data looks like. Um, you know, I we have made a lot of progress in the last years in terms of electric reliability. From 2019 to 2024, Michigan has improved the most out of any state in the nation and in terms of the baseline electric reliability metrics. But we've got a ways to go. We're definitely not done. And we saw some of that earlier this year with some with some storms that uh that caused some significant outages for uh for some of our customers. And we certainly need to improve on the customer protection side as well. Um, we do have uh, you know, high rates of um of shutoffs, of arribes, and we need to be able to understand where that assistance is needed, how to target that assistance, and make sure that customers are able to pay their electric bills and have the resources available to be able to do that. Um, you know, this data isn't valuable just because it's collected, but it's valuable because it's shared and acted upon.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think um, like we've talked about before, uh customers now have the ability to see this data in like an intuitive format, especially with the reliability data. They can just go on these interactive maps and they can um just select either their zip code or utility they're interested in, and then they can learn uh how often outages are occurring in that zip code and how long those outages are lasting or whether reliability is improving over time. And that is important to see and compare like their neighborhoods and their community and help us drive towards uh increasing reliability for everybody, I think.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, totally. And even if even if no one even visits the site or cares about this, um, you know, they they're you they'll still benefit because there will be people who are paying attention and who do go visit the site, like consumer advocates or other interveners in our cases, researchers, other, you know, local governments or organizations, uh, journalists, right? Like people who are reporting on this, that uh they'll have better information for uh when they want to participate in front of us, it may be in some of our commission proceedings, uh, and be able to hold utilities accountable and hold us accountable as regulators.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, already we've had um reporters reach out to us for access to this data. And we've also had grad students from different universities reach out to uh work with this data themselves and learn more about the reliability that uh is in Michigan.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely. And it makes a dictionary, you kind of raised this play question. Um you don't always have to know sort of what somebody will do with the data, but but sort of nobody can do anything on the data if it's not there, right? So so making it accessible is kind of the first step, and then it's a question of kind of how it gets used from that we filmed it. Uh so Jake, maybe let's let's let's talk a little bit about what happens behind the scenes. How does staff use the data? And and can you share any examples?
SPEAKER_00Sure. So for the quarterly report data, that's obviously it's it's submitted quarterly, just like the the nate. Um, and I actually review that data as soon as it comes in. So that's the first thing I do the day that it's due. I'm I'm on the website making sure that all the utilities submitted their data and it all looks okay. So by saying that it looks okay, there are times where I will see something that looks completely off, and that'll send up an alarm bell that I need to take a closer look at it. So, what I will do is I'll take a closer look at those numbers, you know, most likely contact the utility to say, hey, take a look at this data point. It either is not correct or we have some explaining to do of why it looks the way it looks, right? And in most instances, it's just incorrect data. Um, there is still a human element to submitting the data, right? Like sometimes it does get like fat-fingered into a spreadsheet. So we will have them delete that and then uh resubmit the clean data so we have all accurate data on our web page. From there, I actually start looking at the different uh portions of the report, right? Let's start looking for trends. We've we have this map now back to 2020. Um, so we can see like seasonal trends and shutoff data or rearrich data. Are things looking like we expect them to look? Is there an outlier somewhere? And why is there that outlier? And if there is an outlier, we normally contact the utility directly for whatever utility submitted that data. Again, just to ask them to go a little bit deeper with that into that data point to say, hey, what's going on? You know your customers probably better than anybody. Can you tell us if there's something out there that we need to be aware of? Um, also, we meet monthly with the commission office and other uh MPSC employees. And every month I take a little subset of that data and I will dig into it for the commission office and say, hey, this is what the trends are looking like. Um, if it's shutoffs, you know, this is where shutoffs are going, this is where they were at last year, this is where they're at the year before, this is where I think they might go in the next quarter or in the next year, or arrearages, same sort of thing, right? So the commission office is always kind of aware of what's going on with that data. And just a good example of working with other staff members on this is if you look at the arrearage data. So that's it's okay. This is gonna be, I'm gonna nerd out a little bit, but this is the arrearage data itself. You can really get into the weeds with this, right? So I work with our meep section, that's the Michigan Energy Assistance Program. So they they kind of run MEAP here at the commission. And we're actually able to look at low-income customers specifically for arrearage data. So we know how many low-income customers are like six to thirty days behind on their bill, 31 to 60, 61 to 90, and then 91 plus days. We know exactly how many customers for each utility are behind. And we actually know how much they owe as well. So there's dollars that go along with those customers. And then you can average that out and say, okay, if you're in this bucket, your average arrearage is $230, whatever it may be. So being able to get down to that granular level is so key for me because they can look back in the past too now and say, okay, last year funds may have exhausted a little early. How did that impact those numbers? What do we need to do moving forward to make sure that we have those funds available through certain months, right? And they can actually make those suggestions and changes to me when it comes up for time for a change, right? So they can actually use this data to make a better program. Also, another thing that I do quite frequently is I review the data and I say, okay, does this paint a clear picture of what? Want it to look like, right? Do we know you know if customers are shut off and then they're restored, does that really mean a lot to us? Like we want we want customers to be restored, right? But if I'm getting restoration numbers for an entirety of a month, I don't know how long those customers are shut off for. So we actually added a data point to our restoration numbers that is customers restored within five days of being shut off. And that gives us a much better idea of how quickly customers are being restored once they're shut off. So we know customers are then able to actually pay that bill, get assistance for that bill, or make arrangements to get that bill paid. And that was a really, really key suggestion that came out of uh the data analysis and regulatory review work group that we had. It just gives us a more clear picture of shutoffs and restorations instead of just that simple number of total restorations for the month. We can now see like the percentage of customers that are restored shortly after uh they are shut off for non-payment. And we just keep an eye on that. And we keep keeping an eye on it. And if the numbers or the percentages start going out of whack a little bit, we get together, we talk about it, and we see if there's any decisions that can be made to help improve those numbers or if there's anything the commission can do to get word out on assistance, whatever that may be.
SPEAKER_03So that's great. Transparency then just doesn't just benefit the public, it actually strengthens the commission's responsiveness to emerging issues and then oversight of the entities that we that we regulate.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and it's really forced us as staff to have those conversations, especially with the commission office, right? Before we had this transparency out there, we were looking at the data, but we weren't looking at it as holistically as maybe we could have. And now that we have this built, it's it's it's easier to view. Uh, we can see trends easier, we can have these discussions with the commission office, and we can actually work with other uh MPSC divisions. And that's that's what's great is the collaboration between the different sections and divisions here at the commission because this data isn't just for uh the customer assistance division, right? It's for everybody. So we can use that data to start making more informed decisions, and that's it's a great thing.
SPEAKER_03So, in addition to the the customer data, which is really important, there's there's also this this kind of bounty of reliability information as well. So um, Michelle, maybe you can tell us a little bit what customers can learn uh from the the interactive map.
SPEAKER_01For sure. We've kind of already hit on it a little bit, but the focus of the interactive maps are for customers to be able to see and compare uh a bunch of different metrics, like how frequently their outages occur, how long customers are without power, and how long it took for power to be restored in their zip code area. And they can also compare their zip code's performance to their neighbors. And specifically, uh some of the tools and widgets that we've included in our design is we have included the annual average for each metric based on the years of data we've been provided by utilities. And we also show the percentile a zip code is in comparison to their uh to other zip code areas serviced by their utility. So they can see um how well performing their zip code is, or perhaps their zip code is vulnerable, and um that's an area that we can focus on improving in the future. And the idea is that customers now have this data readily available for themselves to dig through and compare. And this data also, like I mentioned, helps staff identify vulnerable areas so that we can work with utilities to make sure that they are our focus for the future and to better um just help all of Michigan become more reliable. And one thing I'm excited is that customers can actually see these improvements over time. So um, if neighborhoods are receiving like tree trimming or are having infrastructure upgrades, they may be able to see those investments reflected in the reliability metrics on our website.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that that part is really interesting. And being able to kind of track it over time too. And you know, they'll they'll see crews outworking or trimming trees maybe in their own backyard and then be able to see the results of that happen in the data.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Yes.
SPEAKER_03So so one thing that came up repeatedly during kind of planning for for collecting this data and being able to display it was the idea that more people looking at the data makes everyone better. Um, Commissioner Perritick, can you talk about why that is?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. I I, you know, we I again it kind of goes back to how how you actually make those decisions. Like looking at that data, having having the basis, the foundation for being able to make the decisions that we're have that we have to make at the commission is is really crucial. Um, and also just identifying other concerns. Maybe there's another organization or an intervening group who looks in and identifies some sort of concern that that we hadn't even noticed before. Maybe there's one particular area that is being neglected, or um one uh demographic that's being neglected, or or that, or there's there's some sort of trend there that can be identified and put on the record so then we can make a decision based on it. Reporters might be able to ask us some questions that we hadn't even considered, or be able to do some additional research into um into into the some of the practices of the utilities. Um and customers might spot changes that are happening in their communities. You know, that's that's really it's a a healthy way of going about making our improvements and setting our regulatory policies.
SPEAKER_03So um I guess as we as we look to the future, you know, this we've done a lot of work up to this point, but in some ways it's sort of just the beginning. Uh where where do we actually see this going? What's what's next?
SPEAKER_02So we are planning on expanding our utility participation in from for on the reliability side. So far, Michelle has been able to cover about 80% of customers in in Michigan with uh with both DTE and consumers for their electric reliability data. Um, but she's already already planning for how to get to get to the rest of the utilities and get those included. Um and and then we're also uh the part of what what Jake was talking about earlier too was he, I mean, he just added another metric that we that we're asking for from the utilities now. So we'll continue trying to refine those data points that we're asking for, that we're reporting on, and that we're that we're really making public.
SPEAKER_01Yes, like you said, we're continuing to work with this data to make it uh more available for customers. And like Commissioner Peritic said, we're gonna be adding more utilities into the reliability data maps, and we may be adding more metrics as well. Um the there's we have a lot of plans for the future, and we hope to just continue making it even better for everybody.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's definitely not this transparency project. It's not a it's not a one-time project, right? We're always continuously trying to think of what we could ask for that would give us that more complete picture. Um, I know we mentioned the the restoration data, but we're also currently looking at some extreme weather information and adding that to the quarterly report, right? Extreme weather days. Let's have those reported so we have a more clear picture of when utilities are calling those. So it's an ongoing commitment. And I don't think it'll stop. And I don't think it just stops here with the data that my group is collecting or Michelle's group is collecting. I think there's other data around the commission that may find itself onto a nice web page like this. Sorry, Charlie. Um I know you're busy, but this is it, it's just it's just such a great thing. And it's been, you know, talking to other states and other in the customer advocates, they are so thankful that we have this out there and they're able to view it, even if sometimes the data isn't the prettiest, you know, it doesn't paint the prettiest picture. It's at least out there so we can work on it and we can try to fix it.
SPEAKER_02It's the only way we will get better is if we actually are able to see the see the real picture, the real data.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_03So this has been a fascinating conversation. And it makes me want to go back and and sort of check out the website again. Um and so as we as we kind of look towards towards wrapping this up today, I'd love to to just give each of you an opportunity to maybe leave us with one final thought. Jake, I'll start with you, then Michelle, and then we'll have Commissioner Peritic close it out.
SPEAKER_00So my final thought is, and this goes back to all the data that that we've been collecting since I've been here, and I've been here for over 20 years, right? Is as long as we continuously work on what we're collecting and ask for the right things from the utilities, we can get better data. And with better data, we can make better decisions and we can we can work off we can we can work off those decisions, right? So I mean, as I just said, like continuously looking to improve what we have and and making it easier for all the public to see.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I to build off of that, I know that electricity and how the grid works is a very complex uh topic. I know before I started working at the commission, I had no idea how the utilities worked and how electricity was distributed. And so I really hope that the reliability maps that I've created and the customer shutoff data that Jake is working with, I hope these are helpful tools for Michigan residents to better understand their utility performance and the steps that we are taking to increase reliability for everybody.
SPEAKER_02Totally. We really just want customers to be able to have the tools that they need to better understand their electric utility service. And to that point, if there is uh if if anyone listening has an idea or what want thinks that we're missing something or has another uh data point that they think that we should be collecting or uh an idea how we can improve the the data display, uh we'll include the an email address in the show notes for how to how to reach out to us and and submit that idea. We're always looking for better, better ways of doing things. Um Michelle and Jake were able to come up with these ideas, but uh we've we've had great ideas come in from the public before as well. So um always, always willing to listen and improve the way that we do things and make sure that what we're providing is actually valuable. Um, because you know, if we're asking our customers, utility customers, to pay for all of these investments that the utilities are making, they really deserve visibility into how it's performing.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. And so I think that's ultimately the most important thing. This is intended to help make the system better, uh make it more transparent, make it something that people can have have trust in. And I just want to thank you, Commissioner Peritic, for your leadership on these issues. I think you've been a real catalyst in terms of trying to sort of push the commission to work to um to collect this data and then to make it sort of uh appear in a way that's that's more accessible and understandable to the public. So I don't I don't know that a lot of this work would have been done without without your leadership. Obviously appreciate uh staff members as well. Jake and Michelle, thank you for being here. Charlie, you know, we've heard heard a lot about you today. Thank you for all your work and everybody else who's who's contributing to this. Um, whether you're a customer who wants to better understand your electric service, a community leader looking for local data, or simply someone interested in how utility regulation works, this new transparency tool puts more information than ever at your fingertips. Um hope you go check out the website and then decide to come back and join us again next time behind the meter. Thank you.