Behind the Meter: An MPSC Podcast A look behind the scenes of the MPSC Customer Assistance Division.

In this episode of the MPSC’s Behind the Meter podcast, we follow a day in the life of Customer Assistance Division staff who help Michigan energy and telecom customers resolve disputes and navigate assistance options. Listeners get an inside look at how the call center supports customers, identifies issues with providers, and spots trends that signal emerging problems — and learn when it’s time to reach out for help with their energy or telecom concern.

For more information on the inquires and complaints process: https://www.michigan.gov/mpsc/consumer/complaints

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:17

Hello and welcome to Behind the Meter, an MPSC podcast, where we talk about the people, policies, and technologies that impact Michigan's energy and telecommunication landscape. I'm Mike Byrne. I'm your host. Today I'm joined by Commissioner Myers. Hello. Commissioner Myers and I are joined by two members of our customer assistance and regulatory team, Lucy and Drew. Lucy and Drew, nice to see you.

SPEAKER_03 0:43

Thanks for having us.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

So in this episode, what we want to do is take listeners behind the scenes at the commission to give you a closer look at the people who work every day to help Michiganders navigate utility issues, resolve concerns, and understand their rights as customers. If you, as a customer of a utility, are experiencing an issue, you can't resolve it with the utility, we have uh folks who who work here who can who can help you out, and we want to introduce you to a couple of them and and let them tell you about their day-to-day work and um and and sort of how uh how they can help utility customers get the get the resolution that they're looking for. So let's let's jump right in. Um maybe Commissioner Margis, I'll start with you and just sort of see what do you hope the public takes away from today's episode? Sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

Um today's episode is really like really resonates with me because it shines a light on um the people who make this work possible. Uh some of our listeners know that I was a longtime staffer, former chief of staff, and many other positions. And so, you know, the people behind the scenes are are are particularly special to me. Um I I want people to understand that the commission's work is not abstract, it's deeply connected to the daily lives of Michiganders, and I hope listeners walk away with a better understanding of what the commission can do for them and the dedicated people who are committed to helping them.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Yeah, I think that's that's great. And I guess why in your mind is it important for people to better understand the the staff that is behind this work?

SPEAKER_02 2:14

Because behind every rule, complaint, and investigation are talented public servants who are working every day to help Michigan residents navigate some of these stressful moments that they face. Um utilities uh and and your it's hard to understand, right? Like our work is hard to understand. Your bill is even hard to understand, and and I think knowing that um there we have such a strong and talented team behind us, I think really um really helps humanize the commission. And again, it it's it's the work that the people who work here do that um that make us successful.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

That's great. So thank you for helping us set this up. Let's let's meet some of those uh talented people who are who are the ones who are are doing stuff behind the scene. Uh Lucy and Drew. So maybe both of you can can start out by telling us a little bit about yourself and and what attracted you to the the Public Service Commission and this work in particular. And Lucy, we'll we'll go ahead and start with you.

SPEAKER_03 3:16

Sure. So um I have worked at the commission since 2021, um, but I've worked in state government for more than a decade. In my previous state agency, we administered benefits, and so I handled issues related to contract disputes, enrollment and eligibility issues. So my entire career in state government has been customer centered and around problem solving. And so what attracted me to work at the commission was to be able to continue that work, but also the impact that the commission has. I mean, we all use electric and gas, and so those are really important things, and it's really impactful work.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

My name's Drew. I've been with the commission for eight years, working in the compliance and investigation section with Lucy. What attracted me to the commission was kind of the mission of the MPSC in general. I like working with the public, trying to help them with their utility issues, and kind of using the technical knowledge and expertise that I've developed in the eight years here to help them look in a utility complaint, get it resolved, and even if they don't have a complaint, just talking to the public about utility service in general, kind of pass on some of the knowledge I've learned working with people here so they can make educated decisions going forward with their electric and natural gas service. And it means something knowing that we can help the person on the phone get an issue resolved. But the work we do impacts Michigan in general and utility customers throughout the state when we're able to look into an issue. And if there is something growing with utility, get that corrected for the customers.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

That's great. Um and it's good to know. I I'm not sure that everybody does know that there is this service that's available that the commission um does provide. So it's it's good to know that that you both are there and along with your colleagues to be able to help. Um and so maybe uh let's let's let's talk a little bit about what a typical day might look like for for for each of you. Um what what what kind of issues are are are you dealing with?

SPEAKER_03 5:07

So there, I feel like you never know what you're going to get. So there's never a dull day for us. People contact us about all different things. So shut-off notices, um, bill disputes, um, miscellaneous service issues, issues with alternative gas suppliers. So that that's a bit of what we get day to day.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

Yeah, as Lucy said, you never really know what the email or call you're gonna get from the customer entails. A lot of the calls, you know, we will have to reach out to utility. A lot of times the customers contact the utility previously, they're not able to get the answer they like, or they're just not able to get an answer from the utility. So we'll file a complaint for them, get that looked into, and then we'll eventually get a response back from the utility. And throughout the day, you know, we're always reviewing responses to make sure that they've addressed all the customers' concerns and that they are in compliance with all the rules and regulations that we have in place. And there'll be some calls where we can just work with the customer directly and you'll answer questions they have about the MPSC, utility service in general, and you know, we can get the issue resolved in a few minutes. And then there's other calls where they might have a question about a section of the MPSC, so we'll reach out to them to get the specific answer we need for the customer. So we not only are we working with customers on a daily basis, we're working with the staff members in our section, and then we're working with different sections throughout the MPSC. So it we kind of, you know, all the buckets we're kind of involved in. So it kind of keeps the day, you never really know what you're gonna expect, but it's always fun working with people and trying to get issues resolved.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

That's great. It sounds like there's a lot of different uh pieces to it, and you never really know what to expect when when you come in each day. But you you might be taking calls from new customers, you might be following up with customers you've dealt with before, you're dealing with the utility to try to get those issues resolved, and then if there's new things that that come up, you're dealing with other areas of the commission to just try to learn about that.

SPEAKER_03 7:00

That's absolutely we're getting status updates. That's another part of what happens. A lot of times the utility reaches out to us to let us know how they're gonna handle the complaint, and so we approve that plan if we are in agreement. And then also when we're receiving the close report. So once the utility company has you know closed out the case on their end, we're reviewing it for compliance at that point to see if there were any rules that were broken, and and then we have to communicate with the customer what our findings were. So it's it's a lot that goes in a day's work.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

And while each of us is assigned to a specific case that we take, we are all working together, kind of bounce ideas off. You get response and utility, you know, I discuss it with another staff member to see if they have a different take on it, or just concerns we have from customers. Well, bring them say, hey, um, we're hearing a little bit on this type of issue. Have you been hearing this from customers as well?

SPEAKER_02 7:51

So I love hearing that there's constant like communication with the customer, just because I think a lot of times people think when you call into a government agency, you you you feel like you're in a black void, right? Like it's an empty hole and you don't, you may not hear back for a week, a couple weeks, but knowing that there is communication and follow-up and that you're circling back in addition to working with the utilities, I think is is also helpful for um listeners to know.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

Yeah, for sure. And I think it's also important to to to recognize the fact that you know you all are sort of the first line of defense. You're hearing uh from customers about issues that are taking place and and the com the the communication, the collaboration that's taking place, you guys can compare notes. If there are sort of issues that that are are pervasive or becoming bigger, you're able to sort of flag that for the rest of the commission. Like, hey, this is something we we need to to probably start to focus on a little more because a lot of people are are are dealing with it. Um so maybe let me ask this question. It sounds like the there's never sort of a dull day in the work that you do, but but I'm curious sort of what's the what's the best part of your job or or what brings you joy in the work that you do?

SPEAKER_03 9:03

I would say the human connection and and the interaction. Um oftentimes people are not necessarily happy to be speaking to us. They'd rather not have the issue that they are having. Um, so there's a lot of frustration usually at the beginning of the interaction, but it happens a lot where by the end of the call, people are like, you know what, thank you so much for listening. And I'm glad that there is someone who is not just listening, but there's another set of eyes that are on this issue and we know that it's gonna get resolved. So I think for me, it's like I like the completion of knowing that an issue is getting resolved, but I also I like interacting with people as well.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

So yeah, as Lucy said, when people reach out to us, there's almost always a problem they're trying to get resolved or a concern they have. And you know, sometimes they are in a vulnerable spot, so it's nice to be able to help them through that situation. And a lot of times it's you know, serious issues they're calling us, worried about a shut-up that could happen in a few days to a week. They're trying to get the service you store. There's a billionaire on the account that they believe that they're trying to get that resolved. So being able to help a customer, you know, keep their service on, it's very rewarding. It might just be getting them in contact with some of the utility that can work through the situation with them, make sure they're aware of all the protections available, different payment arrangements with the utility or assistance that's available in the state of Michigan for them. And it's the same as when they're trying to get the service restored, make sure they're aware of what they need to get the service restored and the different options out there to help them. And billionaires are very similar to that as well. You know, if you have a customer that comes in that believes there's something wrong with the meter and account, when you're able to confirm that, yeah, there is an issue with your bill and you can get that corrected. If they've been over billed, you can give them the credits they deserve and let them know that going forward you're gonna be billed based on your actual usage. And then when the customers can leave the complaint knowing that if I do have an issue in the future, I'm confident I can reach out to the MPSC and we'll be there to listen to them. And if there is an issue, get it resolved for them in a proper manner.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

That's great. Um, so I you know, I I Lucy, I think you made a great point. Like people don't necessarily love the fact that they have to call us because they're in a tough situation. Uh, but but it it is helpful to know that we have such dedicated employees who are there to help them on the other end of it. And and so I guess maybe let's talk a little bit about what it takes. If you are having an issue with utility, your utility service, um, how what should you do if you're if you're reaching out to the MPSC, how would you go about doing that? Uh what should you know before contacting the commission? What information should you have, you know, when when you're in contact with one of the two of you or any of your colleagues?

SPEAKER_03 11:36

Yeah, so people can file complaints three different ways, um, either by phone at 800-292-9555, or online, which is Michigan.gov slash MPSC. Um, they can also file by mail, um, which is MPSC Customer Assistance, PO box 30221, Lansing Michigan 48909. Incredible.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

That's great.

SPEAKER_03 12:04

It's not my first time seeing it, right? Just uh, you know, by memory. But um what we like for people to do is to usually try to work with the utility company first, um, to attempt to give them the opportunity to work through the issue with them. It's not required, but it is highly encouraged. And um when they're contacting us, we would appreciate if there's a shutoff notice, if they have the notice with them, if there is a bill dispute, if they would have the bills with them, um, if they're if they have had prior discussions with the utility, if they have the notes from that. And all of that is important so that we understand the full scope of the issue. Because when we're taking the complaint over the phone, we will be asking a lot of questions. Like I'm a naturally inquisitive person, but I also just want to be really thorough because not only are we documenting it, we need to make sure that we are effectively communicating the issue to the utility company. And so they're gonna get it on their end, and um also it helps from a compliance standpoint that when we get that final report back, that we know what we're looking for and what rules to look for. So that's what we would recommend.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

As Lucy said, there's really not too much information you can give us. We want to be able to make sure the utility knows exactly what issue is at hand they need to address, and then for us when we get the response back, it's easier if we have it all in front of us so we can review everything that you have an issue with and we can make sure the utility has got resolved and that they're in compliance all our applicable rules and tariffs.

unknown 13:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:39

I think it's important also for listeners to know that they should not wait until a problem becomes overwhelming, right? Reaching out to you all earlier gives you more options, gives the the customer more options um available to them if they're reaching out early.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

Yeah, that's great to know. Um and so I guess we've talked about this a little bit, but maybe uh I would love to ask, you know, what are the most common issues that that people call us about and and and what might surprise listeners about the the work that your team does?

SPEAKER_00 14:11

And the most common issues are billing concerns and shutoffs. We get those on a daily basis. You know, usually it's the affordability of the bill. They wonder, you know, the bill's too high, I'm gonna be charged the correct rates. Is my meter registering the usage correctly? And then for shut-ups, obviously, you know, people concerned they are shut off, how they get the service back on, or if they're going to be shut off in the next few days, how can they prevent that? We also get a lot of calls about outages, you know, people concerned about the duration of the outage, the frequency of the outages they're having. You know, is there work that can be done to the circuit, actually tree trimmering, equipment maintenance that can be completed to help improve the reliability? Then we hear about service issues, people trying to start electric or natural gas service. You know, either they're having trouble getting it started on time, or they're just having some communication issues with the utility. So we can reach out to them to see if it's an issue on the customer's end or a contractor, if the utility is missing something that needs to be completed to get the service on, or there's times where they're waiting for permits or easements from local government or neighbors in order to be able to start service. So we can try and help the customer through that to get that figured out. And then kind of a the last year we hear about a lot of supplier issues in Michigan. You know, there's a cap on electric suppliers, 10% for customers, so we don't hear as much about them, but anyone can sign up for an all-term gas supplier. So we do give a lot of all-term gas supplier calls. And a lot of times customers are asking about the program, you know, what's an all-term gas supplier, how does that impact my service? Or if they sign up, you know, they might have questions about the contract I signed, what does that mean? What are the terms of it? And then you know, they might have a question about the marketing. Sometimes people aren't exactly sure what the all-term gas suppliers when they sign up, so they reach out to us to kind of see what they're involved with. And then we also get people that you know trying to figure out if I want to cancel, how do I cancel, who do I go to? You know, do I reach out to the utility directly or do I contact the all-term gas supplier to get canceled? So we can help them with all those issues. And then I think sometimes people think that when they reach out to us, they might be surprised to know that even if it's an issue that we don't regulate, we can still provide you information on it. Or even if you think I'm pretty sure the utility is correct, but I still want to have you know someone look into it, we can do that. You know, not every complaint we take has to be admitting where the utility is in the wrong. We can just get put through the someone at the corporate office over there so they can answer your questions and kind of give you some extra assistance that you may need.

SPEAKER_03 16:28

Yeah, I would say a good example of this is we don't regulate home protection plans, but we will still accept complaints about home protection plans to facilitate. A lot of times there might be like billing issues or people are trying to get canceled. So that's a good example of something that we don't regulate, but we will accept a complaint and facilitate a resolution.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

Um and so this is I just want to be clear, this is different from calling the utility's regular customer service line, right?

SPEAKER_00 16:58

This is Yeah. So when you reach out to us, we have contacts at the utility that are different than the main customer service line. We work with their corporate office and they're a specialist in the specific area that your complaint is involved in. So you'll have a contact person over there you'll work with, like let's say you have an outage-related issue, they'll reach out to someone on the reliability section that can actually look into your outage for you and figure out what's causing it, how to get resolved. And then when you reach out to us, the utility legally has to give us a response back. So we will get a response on your complaint, and then we can review that response from the utility to make sure it's complete, they've addressed all your issues, and then most importantly, that they're in compliance with any applicable tariff or rule that we have in place at the MPSC. So you're gonna have someone that is knowledgeable in the area you're concerned about, review your complaint, and you will definitely get a response back.

SPEAKER_02 17:44

So I think one thing we should clarify for listeners or or say clearly is this is not simply a call center function. This is an official process that brings accountability, oversight, and compliance review into the picture.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

Yes, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

Perfect. So uh maybe we can talk a little bit about what happens after someone files a complaint. Um and and sort of what should customers expect in terms of uh follow-up from the MPSC and and from the from the utility.

SPEAKER_03 18:16

Sure. So when the customer files a complaint, however they file it, um, of course, we review it and we send it over to the utility company. The utility company has to contact that comp that customer within two business days to at least acknowledge receipt of the complaint. Now, that acknowledgement can come by way of telephone call or text message or email just to say, hey, we received your complaint that you filed and we are assigning it to someone on our team. And then the person who is assigned to the case on the utility's end will reach out to the customer. Usually it's to get additional details about that complaint and then work with them. Now, as Drew stated earlier, they do have 10 business days. The utility has 10 business days to work to resolve this issue and then also to compile a report so that we can review it for compliance on our end.

SPEAKER_01 19:10

And if the utility doesn't comply within or answer within 10 business days, what happens at that point?

SPEAKER_00 19:16

We'll reach back out to the utility. The same contact that's handling the complaint initially, we'll reach out to them, let them know, hey, your past 10 business days, what's going on with this complaint? You know, we need a plan of action now or a response. And usually once you reach out to them, we'll get a response right away. And for some reason, you know, we don't agree with the response again. We can always have a meeting, you know, with that section over there and figure out what's going on and make sure we get the issue handled. But they legally have to respond back to us, so the customer is always going to hear back.

SPEAKER_02 19:41

I think this is where, again, reminding the listener that the commissioner's role or the commission's role of oversight is so important. It's not enough for an issue to simply be acknowledged. We want to ensure that it is resolved in a way that is consistent with our rules and protections for customers.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

That that makes a lot of sense. Um and so I guess we we kind of alluded to this earlier, but but I'd like to dig back in on it. So you know, is it possible for one complaint to lead to a sense that there is something more going on? And and and sort of how do you as a team identify larger patterns that might be might be.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

Yeah, we definitely have times where one complaint will get response back from utility and realize that you know there's a wider range of issue here that we can look into. And then during the day, as we've said a few times, you know, we are always in communication with each other, talking about, you know, if you get a response back that you think might be concerning, everyone reviews it. Or if we have a pattern of responses, you know, we can definitely look into it further. And we have meetings usually every week, every two weeks, you know, to talk about patterns that we're seeing with complaints from customers and just responses from the utility. But if we get one complaint and we find out that there's an issue going on that you know impacts much more than just you know a handful of customers, we can definitely get forwarded on and have a you know larger investigation by the commission. I think Lucy, you can kind of touch on an example of when we did that recently.

SPEAKER_03 21:02

Oh, yeah. Um, so a really good example of this was in the beginning of 2023, we started to receive a lot of complaints about high estimated bills. And so we very quickly saw that this was a pattern and that it it was a larger issue. This eventually led to an investigation that was opened by the commission, and um there was a show cause hearing, and eventually there was a settlement in which um the utility company had to pay one million dollar fine, and uh there were also other things that they that they had to do as a part of that resolution, but the utility company could not um recoup that money from the ratepayers.

SPEAKER_02 21:43

So um Lucy, that was a great example. I I think this is uh another important uh fact that the listener should understand is that one complaint can help more than one customer. Sometimes it helps us identify issues that affect communities across the state. And informs broader investigations or enforcement actions. So thank you. That's a really good, I think, for listeners to hear.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

And so I I think it's been great to hear from both of you like the work that our team does, and hopefully we're we're able to get to a point where we're we're able to resolve the complaint informally. But I imagine there are times when um a customer may feel like the the response that they've gotten doesn't resolve their issue. Is there anything that they can do at that point to try to escalate?

SPEAKER_00 22:29

Yeah, in addition to the informal complaint process, we have a formal complaint process customers can go through. They send in a complaint to the MPSC, they label a formal complaint, and it's reviewed by attorneys here to see if it's prima facie, essentially, you know, is there a potential rule of violation by the utility? If it's deemed that there is a potential rule of violation, we'll go forward scheduling a hearing in front of an administrative law judge for that customer. And there's a few good things about the formal complaint process. You know, one, they can file at any time. They can go through the informal complaint process, and if they disagree with the outcome, they can file it, or they can just file a formal complaint without going through the informal process. And then the formal complaint process, there's no you know, no charge for it. You don't have to pay any money to file a formal complaint or have a hearing. And then if you are a residential customer, you can have an attorney for the process, but it's not required. And then if you have any questions about how to file a formal complaint, you can reach out to us through our main customer service line, 1-800-292-9555, or you can go to our website, Michigan.gov slash MPSC. And if you go to our consumer page, there's a complaint section and it'll outline the steps for the formal complaint on there. But once again, if you go online and you have any questions about how to file a formal complaint or what may be needed, give us a call and we can kind of walk you through the process.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

And ideally, we'd be able to get it fixed through the informal process, but it's nice to know that there is that next step if if it's necessary for customers to to to to to to go after. Um so it we've heard a lot of great stuff today from from our team. I continue to be I was already impressed with you guys, but to to hear about the work that you do and and and the way that you do it, that that um it just reminds me what a great team that that we've got. And so, Commissioner Myers, from your perspective, what what do you want the the public to understand about this team?

SPEAKER_02 24:14

Um These are skilled, deeply compassionate professionals who are doing meaningful public service work. They are often meeting people in moments of stress and uncertainty, and they approach the work with emp empathy, professionalism, and expertise. This team is one of the clearest examples of government working directly for people.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

100% agree. Um so before we close, let's maybe leave our listeners with just a few key takeaways. Uh Commissioner Myers, let's start with you.

SPEAKER_02 24:45

Sure. Um key tape key takeaway number one: if you are having a utility issue, do not wait to ask for help. Reach out to the MPSC.

SPEAKER_01 24:54

Great.

SPEAKER_02 24:55

Lucy, how about you?

SPEAKER_03 24:56

I would say um again, if you have a shut-off notice, a billing dispute, a service issue, an outage issue, to contact us. We are here to help and we do want to help you. Drew, help us.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

Yeah, say if you have any issue whatsoever, and if you're not sure it involves us, or you know, if you're not sure the utility is doing something incorrectly, just give us a call and we can always answer your questions. Or if it's an issue we can look into, we'll definitely get that investigated for you. And try and call as soon as possible because we'd like to help you before you know a small problem becomes a bigger problem. And we can usually, you know, science assist you even more if you call us ahead of time. So, yeah, if you're on the fence at all about give us a call. Please call us. We've heard about every scenario you can think of, so there's really nothing you can say that's going to surprise us. That's great to hear.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

Well, I want to thank Lucy and Drew, you you for your work, uh, and and also the work of your your colleagues in the compliance investigation section and the customer assistance division. Uh, it's it's really important work, and we're glad that you're doing this on behalf of the people of the state of Michigan. Uh, for our listeners, I would just point out that um not only do we do we take energy-related complaints, but we also take uh telecommunications complaint as well. We have a group in our telecommunications division who who deal with issues around uh telephone service, around uh broadband, uh a whole number of things. And maybe we'll get them on the podcast at some point too, so they can talk about some of that stuff. But uh if you if you as a listener are dealing with a utility concern, know that there are resources out there to help. Um, appreciate all of you tuning in today and hope that you join us next time behind the meter. Thanks.